The following are scans of the interview with Shigesato Itoi from the the July 2006 issue of Nintendo Dream. These scans and their translated notes are by Kody NOKOLO. Please credit Mother Forever and Kody NOKOLO if you report or repost these scans. Translations are credited to Clyde Mandelin. Find the original translation on Clyde Mandelin’s website.

– (imitating the voice in the initial character naming screen) OK desu ka?

Itoi: (laughs) Yeah, OK desu.

– That “OK desu ka?” voice is yours, isn’t it?

Itoi: I didn’t even know that my voice was recorded! It was over ten years ago when Hirokazu Tanaka tricked me into saying it after he’d hidden a tape recorder. Now it’s even being used as-is in MOTHER 3, without any remastering.

– When I heard it, I thought, wow, MOTHER really has returned.

Itoi: A lot of people have mentioned that. That, and “What about MOTHER 1? It didn’t get an ‘OK desu ka’!”. (laughs) Everyone is using MOTHER 2 as a sort of scale of measurement. I’ve come to understand that quite well.

– Even so, MOTHER 3 sales are going great, aren’t they? Congratulations.

Itoi: Thank you. I’ve been really tired since its release, though.

– I’m sure you were extremely anxious even before the release.

Itoi: Oh, I was! Software really is like a child.

– It’s like a child that refuses to be born finally making its appearance into the world.

Itoi: That’s about right. I never would have thought that I’d come to feel this way.

– I know it was an extremely long production period, but what were your feelings?

Itoi: Well, besides the times when nothing was being made at all… (laughs) No, well, in the beginning it was extremely interesting. When I thought up the story and when the production was coming to an end were really the heaviest periods. Of course, because it’s a team project, there isn’t a whole lot you can do directly yourself, so a lot of the time was just spent worrying about it.

– All of the fans were left in suspense worrying about it, too.

Itoi: Yes, I’m sorry. (laughs)

– The N64 version was cancelled back in 2000, and after having completely given up, the new development was announced three years later.

Itoi: Yeah, that was at the time of 1+2‘s announcement.

– Everyone was delighted when they read Mr. Saturn’s “MOTHER 3 is coming, too” message, but…

Itoi: They said, “You’re lying!”. (laughs) But, even though so much time and effort had been spent on the game, once its cancellation had been announced, I assumed development on MOTHER 3 couldn’t be restarted..so this time around, the job felt like I was marching with the spirits of MOTHER 2 and 3 behind me. Like I was crossing the river Styx. (laughs)

– But once you managed to complete it so perfectly, tons of postcards came in from readers expressing their appreciation for you and the staff.

Itoi: It’s greatly appreciated. But that’s also why it’s so exciting. It’s not quite like any other kind of created work. And it wasn’t like a vengeance-driven battle–I’m not exactly sure what it was–but it really was a feeling like that of a prayer. A feeling like, “If I pray hard enough, everyone can go to heaven!”.

– Fans weren’t the only ones happy about MOTHER 3‘s release. Mr. Iwata, who announced the cancellation, and everyone who had been involved in the production were jumping for joy too, I’m sure.

Itoi: You can say that again! Mr. Iwata has been the producer of MOTHER 3 since the N64 version. (laughs) But come to think of it, the decision to cancel MOTHER 3 eventually connected to all of the hit titles coming out for the DS now. And so, if Mr. Iwata had not become the president [of Nintendo], re-releasing MOTHER 3 never would have been the “adventure” it was. So I often say it was like a tiny bug climbing a great mountain, only to find itself atop a pile of dung.

– I’m not sure if that’s really the best way to…

Itoi: That was the wrong way of putting it. (laughs) It was like we skinned the wrong cat. Wait, no. When it rains, it pours..well, all of those are wrong. (laughs) We had to deal with some pretty trying things at that time, but I learned this time around that if you really put your heart and prayers into it, things will happen.

– This may not be MOTHER 2 but prayer is still important.

Itoi: Praying is important. So is singing.

– Let’s get back on track. When the main screen appears, it’s very comforting to see the warm, MOTHER-like pixel art.

Itoi: Those dots really hit the spot. (laughs)

– What were your thoughts behind choosing a pixel style in a time when gorgeous CG is flooding the market?

Itoi: Flashy CG just isn’t an option for me. I often find myself thinking how ordinary CG is. It’s all you see when you watch movies and TV. CG isn’t something to associate with the words “pretty” and “luxurious” as much as people should be saying, “Well, it’s just your average CG.” I figured because we’re drawing a picture, it’s better to just draw something suitable and disconnect it from the trends around us.

– I can’t help but feel as if it’s instead connected with the recent retro gaming boom, especially with the 20th anniversary of the Famicom.

Itoi: Oh, that’s just a coincidence. It’s a special characteristic of my teams and I to completely drag out production time. For example, I’ve been asked why we didn’t just release the game on the DS, but the DS was released afterwards. (laughs) You see, we started making 3 before the DS was even announced. So when I’m asked why we chose a pixelated style, all I can say is, “Well, hasn’t it always been that way?!”. (laughs) It’s not that easy to just take your hands off the wheel. But once the state-of-the-art Game Boy Micro came out, I started saying how happy I was that we could put it out for the Micro, then.

– (laughs)

Itoi: But now, people are asking why we chose the Game Boy Micro. You can’t just change something like that so easily, you know? Seriously, it’s not like we’re making pancakes here. (laughs)

– Shogo Sakai’s music is just magnificent.

Itoi: It’s good, huh?!

– It really is!

Itoi: I felt like Sakai’s ring-side supporter. Basically, Sakai wasn’t competing with the music director of MOTHER 2, Keiichi Suzuki. He was instead competing with Keiichi’s fans.

– Yes, the music from 1 and 2 was magnificent as well.

Itoi: It’s because the music in MOTHER and MOTHER 2 has reached its zenith. It’s become a sort of monument with the way everyone raves about it. Like a “Monument of MOTHER Music”.

– Yes. (laughs)

Itoi: People treat it that way, almost as if they’re paying their respects to this “monument”. Dealing with that kind of immortalized perfection as competition is really tough. And Sakai had to deal with that battle all on his own.

– So Mr. Sakai was the only one in charge of MOTHER 3‘s music?

Itoi: That’s right. And there was an insane number of songs to be taken care of. If you look at the number of songs, you’ll see what I mean.

– There are 250 songs in the sound player.

Itoi: If you think about it, I had to assign the music to someone in the development team, someone who understood the game the most. I realized this even before we started development, so I couldn’t just request a musician outside of the project like Keiichi and have messages passed on for each and every song request. Plus, Hirokazu Tanaka is the president of Creatures, Inc. now.

– And busy with the music composition for Pokémon as well, I would guess.

Itoi: Yeah. And only someone with plenty of time to dedicate to the project could do it. Said person would have to be so involved that if he couldn’t contribute pencil-sharpening duties on the development site, he couldn’t have worked on the music. On top of that, Shogo Sakai knew the most about MOTHER 3‘s story. He would tell the person making the scenario stuff like, “About this scene, I think we should do this”. (laughs)

– The same musical feel from 1 and 2 is really present this time around, too.

Itoi: It is. And achieving that is really difficult. Because the things you like and the things you’ve learned are both so important. Technique, too. Sakai really was like a pillar of support. I really don’t think that MOTHER 3 could have been possible without him.

– We, as fans, are truly grateful. Which of Mr. Sakai’s songs do you particularly enjoy?

Itoi: I really don’t think I can answer that question…they’re all very good.

– After finishing the game, the “Love Theme” is a real tear-jerker.

Itoi: Actually, that song was made specially, later on. Actually, we didn’t even have that song until far into the game’s development. When the ending was still unfinished, we were considering just using the Pigmask theme. (sings tune) Dadan-dan-daan, dadan-dan-daan; for our main song. Personally, at the time, I was perfectly content with using the Pigmask song as the main theme.

– Oh, really?

Itoi: But during an extremely important scene, we decided it was necessary to have a new song created that would have the greater impact regarding what we wanted most to portray.

– And when did that come up?

Itoi: It was December of last year [2005]. When I announced on Hobonichi3, “It’s almost finished!”, the “Love Theme” didn’t even exist. But it added a sense of emotion that practically changed some of the actual story.

– Mr. Sakai sure produced a fantastic piece in a short amount of time.

Itoi: Essentially, Mr. Sakai was waiting for the order. He said, “Oh, that’s going to be tough,” with a big smile on his face. Then he completed the piece almost immediately, brought it to me and asked, “How’s that?”. (laughs)

– I hear you requested a melody that could be played on the piano using one finger.

Itoi: Yes. “Eight Melodies” shows up in elementary school textbooks, and I even received e-mails telling me how people heard the song played on the flute at school. After that, I imagined, this time, a child who can’t really play the piano, sitting in the school music room playing the piece with a single finger. I told Sakai how I wanted a song that anyone could hum along with, and he came up with something really magnificent. I was really thrilled.

– Moving on to the story, I’d like to talk about the tagline “Strange, Funny, and Heartrending”. I would say Fassad’s Happy Boxes in Chapter 3 count as “strange”.

Itoi: Well, everyone seems to have just decided they’re televisions.

– Yeah. (laughs)

Itoi: Well, DON’T! (laughs)

– But they do have antennas, and, well, they really do look like TV sets.

Itoi: Yes, during development I wondered if they did look too much like TVs and had them fixed countless times. But the boxes aren’t even displaying anything.

– And they’re not computers either, I suppose?

Itoi: Computers? I don’t know. I really have no idea. They’re just “Happy Boxes”. So, really, they could even be fish tanks. (laughs)

– As far as the characters go, the Magypsies are amazingly strange.

Itoi: Yes, they’re like mixed-up Chimeras. (laughs) A fusion of man and woman.

– Before I first encountered the Magypsies, I was told, “They’re neither man nor woman, nor are they human.” That really left it up to my imagination as to what frightening creature I was about to come across. (laughs)

Itoi: The real credit for that goes to the person who drew the art. (laughs)

– They really are some fantastic people.

Itoi: It’s because the world in the game is so macho. The good guys in the game are strong and they fight. The same goes for the bad guys. So in other words, it’s set up so that might equals right; “Power is beautiful”. And amid all of that, there are these non-men yet non-women people who have already gone so far as to accept their fate of death. If these characters really existed…I would want people who play MOTHER 3 not to act hostile towards them. I would want them to have fun together in a world they both share.

– I can really feel how much you respect the essence of the Magypsies.

Itoi: I really do respect them. I have Magypsy friends of my own.

– I knew it! (laughs)

Itoi: It’s to the point where I’ve been told how well I understand the Magyspy heart. (laughs) And how some players were especially moved to tears in the way the Magypsies’ sense of beauty differs from the sense of beauty most people adhere to.

– Only someone like you with such a wide variety of acquaintances could’ve created such a world. (laughs)

Itoi: I’m not one of those people. But I really like them a lot. Enough that I’d want to be one myself. (laughs)

– (laughs)

Itoi: There’s a part where a Magypsy says, “Farewell!”, and then flutters away like a piece of paper. I really like how there’s a complete lack of weight… it’s almost pitiable. (laughs)

– Even though they live for over 10,000 years. (laughs) Speaking of which, when a Needle is pulled and a certain Magypsy begins to disappear, he says, “I’m well”. By any chance, is that from “Kiki’s Delivery Service”?

Itoi: Yep. The staff tried to stop me when I wrote that. They said, “If you weren’t Shigesato Itoi we’d have stopped you.” (laughs)

– There’s quite a mysterious ring to the Magypsy names, like Ionia and Phrygia.

Itoi: That was Shogo Sakai’s doing. Apparently they’re special musical terms.

– Is that true for all of the Magypsies?

Itoi: Even Mixolydia.

– Really?

Itoi: Think of it as Mr. Sakai’s own play on words. Apparently, people who know a lot about music find that naming scheme intriguing.

– Games in the MOTHER series have adventures to gather melodies, so it’s nice to have something similar this time around, too.

Itoi: Yes, I wanted to keep the music aspect of it important. Just as I have great respect for the Magypsies, I also feel very happy with the music when I’m playing the game. So it’d be really great if this helps bring together people who really love music and people who really love gaming.

– The way you learn PSI is portrayed a little differently this time.

Itoi: It’s like, umm… It’s like menstruation.

– ???

Itoi: One of my themes is representing the physiology of the human body. It’s a lot like the Asthma Spray. A character will start sweating while realizing PSI, almost like with a teething fever. Whenever a human being develops or learns a new ability, the body really takes a beating. I’ve had this experience myself–whenever I’m feeling sluggish and exhausted, it’s absolutely certain that good things will follow. When you’re given an overwhelming problem you just can’t deal with, the only way to cope with it is to completely mobilize your heart and your mind and make a strenuous effort to get through it.

– Ah. Now that you mention it, when Lucas first starts realizing PSI in the tunnel stage, he’s told to “just deal with it” by a Magypsy.

Itoi: Almost like, “What’s about to happen to him?”. (laughs)

– (laughs)

Itoi: Only a grownup could’ve created a story development like that. (laughs)

– The sense of Lucas’ growth into an adult in that scene is very strong. (laughs)

Itoi: Most games are made by people who deal with young people and children, and they make their games with a child’s heart in mind. So I wanted to approach things from an older man’s perspective. I love doing things like that. (laughs) I want children to understand that, too. But children are good at picking up the general idea behind things. In the future, if I happen to live to be ninety years old, I want one of those kids to come to me as a grown-up and say, “A long time ago, in third grade, I played MOTHER 3. I was really nervous and confused about what was going on in the hot spring in that tunnel..and that’s what led me to the place I am today”.

Both: (laugh)

– What place would that be? Oh, man, this is getting iffy… (laughs)

Itoi: Even now, there are people who grew up with “Naughty Good Boy”. I think it’s really similar to that.

– Of course, CERO designated MOTHER 3 suitable for all ages.

Itoi: Of course it’s suitable for all ages. (laughs) Now that you mention it, showing Duster’s leg dragging was okay, too.

– Why did you give Duster a bad leg?

Itoi: I figure that because there are handicapped people in our world, it would also be part of the world of MOTHER 3. After all, there’s no way that any two people have the same physique or even the same personality. Just like with the Magypsies, I included Duster so we could have someone with bad breath, a disabled leg, and living as a thief. The MOTHER 3 world is all about having friends like them. Perhaps you could call them symbols of not rejecting such people.

– Even though Duster’s leg is bad, he attacks by kicking…

Itoi: You can speculate whatever you like about it. For example, some people might think that there is a metal rod inside it. Others might guess that it’s stretched out because it’s normally not very useful. I leave it entirely up to your imagination.

– Osohe Castle was a strange place, with its ghosts.

Itoi: Whenever trying to portray something, how to represent the flow of time is always a source of debate. No matter how correctly you portray a time period, it’s easy for that depiction to become really shallow. But when you dig up a fossil, you realize that there was a time when this thing actually inhabited this world. All kinds of historic ruins hold this kind of power, the Nazca Lines, for instance. So I created Osohe Castle to act as a time scale of sorts.

– Osohe Castle is truly a relic that communicates something about the past. Tanetane Island is a very strange place, too.

Itoi: I had a hard time with that island. It has that Moonside vibe to it, and it’s like a mirror of the player’s mind in that it reflects their worst nightmares. Even the temporary dialogue I had used there at first was so unpleasant I couldn’t stand to look at it. So I tried to tone things down just enough by rewriting it. But that island definitely isn’t pleasant at all.

– When I played it, I felt like I really had to get out of there. It was like an innate defense mechanism.

Itoi: That’s because it’s meant to make you feel that way. Right now I’m keeping up with the American drama Lost, and they both share some of the same “flavor”. I love stuff like that. I watched other things like Twin Peaks, too. But if I had to say what my worst kind of nightmare might be, it would involve my friends and family all being evil.

– All kinds of strange Chimeras appear in the game, but which one is your favorite?

Itoi: Well, let’s see, there are so many that show up…I’m going to remain quiet on that matter.

– There are so many Itoi-ish Chimeras that show up…

Itoi: That’s only because I was pleased with the Chimeras I kept coming up with. Even names that I tacked on temporarily easily made it through to the final version. The Squawking Stick was really something, wasn’t it? (laughs) But I really got a kick out of the Bucket Brothers and the other Chimeras that help pump out the water.

– The pump Chimeras are fantastic! Though they’re more funny than strange. (laughs) But actually, since I rushed through the game, I accidentally chose the right Chimera first.

Itoi: You dummy! (laughs) You’re not even playing around in the world of MOTHER 3!

– I’m sorry! (laughs)

Itoi: It was written all over his face that he was the right choice. I even went so far as to have the person say, “Oh, it’s just some ho-hum thing…” when you select the right Chimera! (laughs)

– So that’s why I thought it seemed like too easy of an answer. (laughs) But I’ll be sure to use the Bucket Brothers when I play through the game a second time.

Itoi: Those guys are great. Doria even cheers them on and says, “Look at them try so hard!”. (laughs)

– Let’s move from “strange” to “funny”. So, the “Oxygen Machines” from Chapter 7… I felt they were the greatest machines in the series.

Itoi: Yes, they were certainly the “strange and funny” aspect, weren’t they?

– Games have always featured various kinds of ocean floor exploration, but you must be the first person to ever create such machines.

Itoi: Yes. They’re machines, but then they even say, “Good work today,” after a hard day of work. (laughs)

– They’re all gathered together after work is over. (laughs)

Itoi: They probably all gather together on their own. Just like when city buses all gather together at the station, it’s like they’re all returning and telling each other, “Good work today”. I’m quite fond of that. (laughs)

– When you use the machines, the screen turns pink…

Itoi: Yes, when you’re being sucked in. Oh, wait, no. When you’re being blown into.

Both: (laugh)

Itoi: I always mix those up! (laughs) That’s when you’re being blown into.

– It seems like you’re being sucked in, too, though… (laughs)

Itoi: No, that’s just a misunderstanding.

– Speaking of funny, the mole cricket was great, too.

Itoi: I really hope people embrace the mole cricket. It’s like he almost understands himself, but not quite. Somewhere out there, there’s probably some president of an emerging company who feels the same way. (laughs) It’s like, in the beginning they were doing music, but they ended up quitting because they didn’t actually have any talent. So it’s like, “What, you’d been doing it the whole time without any talent, and you just noticed now?”.

– So, that’s why the defeated mole crickets turned their attention to commerce?

Itoi: No, no, that’s just what eventually happened. I’m actually a fan of people who are like that mole cricket. He did his best, didn’t he?

– The first time the mole cricket appears, the mother squashes him so easily that I thought it was going to be his only appearance.

Itoi: That partly acts as a reminder for fans of Buzz Buzz. Kind of like, “Whoa, another bug showed up and died?”.

– Oh, I see. Mole Cricket Hole was pretty great, too. (laughs)

Itoi: With the elder mole cricket’s sympathy towards youngsters and such. Only an adult can really understand the flavor of that. (laughs) Of course the elder mole cricket knows the mole cricket is just acting tough and will probably be beaten, but at the end he says, “Perhaps mole crickets aren’t so powerful after all”. (laughs)

– And that’s what led them to learn about the business world. (laughs)

Itoi: When I made that part, I had a really hard time with it. But on the other hand, I also hoped the development team’s get-togethers would never end…

– And that’s why the enjoyment of the people making the game comes through so clearly when playing the game. That really hit home for me.

– So this time around, we save through frogs.

Itoi: Yes. Even before the game was on the shelves, I was anticipating many questions about why saving wouldn’t involve calling Dad. Actually, I was already being questioned about it even before then. (laughs) Changing the system of a game is, in the end, going to absolutely guarantee complaints. What I’d really like is for people to think that the frogs were even better than phone calls to Dad.

– It was extremely fun coming across all of the different situations of the frogs. Like the geezer frog in the old folks’ home. (laughs)

Itoi: Yeah, that one’s like, “Sh-sh-shave your game, shonny?”. (laughs) But really, the question I fear most is, “Why frogs?”. But they are tiny, they seem like they could be anywhere, and they won’t get in your way, yet they do stand out. A dog wouldn’t really seem like a save point. I’ve written a song called “Furimukeba Kaeru”. When someone fails, a frog comes along and says, “Oh, it’s nothing to worry about.” The lyrics show, hey, you’re being told this by a frog. It’s obviously not worth being that upset about. It’s a frog telling you this, what more do you want? (laughs) That’s where it comes from.

– The wonderfully fun Mr. Saturns show again this time.

Itoi:  I like when the Mr. Saturn shows up later to give you the Franklin Badge.

– Oh that was good. With the Mr. Saturn trying to cover his face and stuff. (laughs)

Itoi: It’s good, isn’t it? (laughs) I love that part. After he says, “Farewell!” and departs from view, he’s actually still sitting there, just slightly off screen. (laughs)

– (laughs)

Itoi: He’s off screen, so he feels relieved about it. (laughs) That was actually just a bug in the game. But I decided to leave it that way.

– That’s a good bug. So you wrote some text for him.

Itoi: I wound up wanting to keep him there. I like stuff like that. I’m the game’s creator, of course, but I was able to enjoy that from the player’s view, too.

– Well then, let’s move on to the “heartrending” part of the story.

Itoi: All right.

– First of all, Hinawa suddenly dies right in the first chapter, so it seems there were some female players who were really shocked by this after naming Hinawa after themselves.

Itoi: So I hear. That’s the depth of attaching a name to something. There are some who just name the characters AAAAA, and a long time ago, I felt a little upset toward people like that. I wanted to tell them that it’s a big deal to give your characters names of their own.

– And that’s especially important this time around.

Itoi: When I heard about the impressions people got from Hinawa’s death, the ones that really stood out to me were from people who had named her after their own mothers. It made me really happy when they mentioned how, afterwards, they really appreciated their mothers. There were also some mothers who used their own names, and accepted Hinawa’s death with a feeling of warmth. I think those are the people who are living their own lives to the fullest.

– I can see that.

Itoi: One of the underlying themes of MOTHER 3 is that there are two feelings–like, “C’mon, it’s just a game,” and, “C’mon, be serious, this is a game here”. So I put a powerfully moving scene right in the beginning, as a testament to the interesting developments to come. Making that first chapter was really tough, especially because I felt like I did such major things with it.

– Some say that the game isn’t very MOTHER-like…

Itoi: Well, that really can’t be helped. But if you play through the game for a little while, you’ll see it’s okay. Had we done it otherwise, people would’ve complained, “It’s just a dumb carbon-copy rehash of 1 and 2.” I wasn’t trying to be strategic about it or anything, but MOTHER 3‘s story is what it is. That’s really all that I can say about it. But it’s true that if you give the characters personal names, you’re probably in for a big shock.

– And I’m sure there are people out there who became completely submerged in that world.

Itoi: But no matter how you look at it, it is just a game, and it’s not a true story. So to get this point across, I tried to make it as exaggerated as I possibly could. When Bronson tries to break the news of Hinawa’s death, he says, “I’ve got good news and bad news”. But didn’t you find that to be a rotten thing to say?

– I felt pretty uneasy about that line.

Itoi: I left that feeling of uneasiness in there without cutting back on it at all. To me, that was pretty important. In that scene, everyone is offering their deepest condolences, but if I had let the game continue on with that mood, I definitely wouldn’t have been able to throw those Oxygen Machines into the game later. (laughs)

– I’m grateful that you put those Oxygen Machines in for us. (laughs)

– Salsa’s story in Chapter 3 is pretty sad, too. The way Fassad always electrocutes Salsa really creates a feeling of hatred for him.

Itoi: Hatred is really important too. In this case, it shows that there are people in the world of MOTHER 3 who hurt others out of enjoyment. Fassad doesn’t really understand the pain of others, you know? But the key is that he’s using the pain of others to accomplish things for his own benefit. No characters are really ever that bad. Characters that bad can only be used as a joke.

– And it’s also an important point that we’re playing as Salsa, isn’t it?

Itoi: During battles, there are times when Fassad appears to be a reliable ally. That evokes very complex emotions. Basically, the person who hurts you the most is the one who comes to your aid to save you from outside enemies. There’s also the feeling of, “You probably haven’t felt this feeling before, have you?”. Games are really interesting because they’re able to do that. You wouldn’t be able to transfer something that evokes emotions in that way into a novel, for instance.

– That’s true.

Itoi: Things like that are what give games depth.

– The Clayman Factory is a really sad place, too.

Itoi: Yeah. Makes you wonder what the Claymen really are. It seems like a story about someone smart who used cheap materials…

– The Claymen appeared during the Nintendo 64 years, too, didn’t they?

Itoi: The design of the Claymen has always been a theme I’ve been working on in my mind. I felt their design this time was okay, but to tell you the truth, I still feel like the very best Clayman design would have turned out differently.

– Oh, really?

Itoi: It was important material for me, almost to the point where I could let someone make a movie about the Claymen. You can make the claim that Claymen are people, too.

– I can see that point of view, too.

Itoi: After all, in some myths and legends, it’s thought that God breathed life into a pile of clay to create humans. I hope people will get a taste of the Claymen’s sadness and endless sorrow when they look at them.

– When I see them working as hard as they can, I really do feel sad. But, the absolute saddest part of the entire game is the last battle.

Itoi: …Yes.

– The absolute saddest part of the entire game is the last battle.

Itoi: …Yeah.

– Before we get into the last battle, let’s touch on the scenario…during the N64 version, it’s been said that you had written the scenario while you were overseas.

Itoi: I went to Saipan and wrote it. I was really happy when I finished it.

– How is that compared to the scenario of the Gameboy Advance version?

Itoi: The summary has not changed. But, it has become a lot lighter. The scenario in the N64 version was much, much darker. Compared to how things are now, I think when I wrote the script ten years ago, as far as dark aspects and sad aspects, I wasn’t presented with as many confrontations. I didn’t have many options to choose for the game back then, either. And so, I thought I would dig in the direction that would upset people. So the scenario in the N64 version was dirtier than this one.

– In the N64 interview, you had mentioned that you wanted to “betray the player”.

Itoi: Yeah. There were parts that I had only added in order to disappoint the players…there are things like that which are connected to the series as a whole, and while it’s very good from a business perspective to work things into a routine, I was making it because I enjoyed it, and I wanted to take some chances. It’s just that I had some thoughts, like, maybe I was wrong in using that technique. Like if it were sumo, I’d end up being flipped over the guy’s head.

– Like you’re just setting yourself up for ruin. (laughs)

Ito: And being told, “It’s a lost cause!”. (laughs) But during the N64 version, that’s what I was going for.

– So why did the GBA version end up with the lightened scenario?

Itoi: (pauses to think) …I guess I became a good person.

– (laughs)

– Did your loyal MOTHER fans have any influence in your becoming a “good person”?

Itoi: Not at all. I can profess right now that I haven’t been changed by the fans. If that were the case, then Yujiro Ishihara and Ken Takakura would be different people now, because of me. (laughs) I am grateful for the messages from my fans. It makes me happy, but it’s certainly not like that’s all it takes to change a person. It’s not like that. You can’t just make it so you’re influenced by people.

– Well, that’s a bit rude!

Itoi: No, no. The big thing here is the group of people around me. Like if an employee gets married or something.

– I see.

Itoi: When we made MOTHER 2, there were practically no married men with us at all. People who are involved with the development of a game are like a group full of weirdos, infecting the air with this pretentious attitude that blasphemes anyone who wouldn’t look forward to all-nighters [on the project]. Gaming magazines are the same way. (laughs)

– The editing department is crawling with singles. (laughs)

Itoi: As if to say, “If you’re looking for a normal sense of happiness, you’re better off going to a respectable company!” (laughs) There was a time when thinking stuff like that gave a person a solid feeling of pride. Same as someone boasting, “Man, I smoked too many cigarettes and I feel sick now”.

– (laughs)

Itoi: But looking at it now, I see for example how happy I am if a co-worker has a child, and how truly sad I feel when an employee falls ill. So it’s like I have literally become a father, myself. So if I put up some pretense and die from it, I’ve got nothing to show for it. I can’t do my job well if I’m too busy coughing from cigarettes. (laughs)

– So that’s why you gave up cigarettes. (laughs)

Itoi: The change has happened during the long period we’d been making MOTHER 3. (laughs)

– Well then, let’s get to the story about the heartwrending last battle. Anyone who experiences that last battle would make a face like Kou Shibasaki in the commercial.

Itoi: Ms. Shibasaki was speaking from her heart about her feelings toward MOTHER 3, so having her express herself so naturally really made some wonderful expressions.

– That last battle really wrenches your heart.

Itoi: For the dialogue in the last scene, I had several choices for every single line. So rather than flying through the writing, I had to take each line, personally, and really digest each and every one. For a scene like that, it’s not like you can just have a sleepover with everyone on the team to discuss the dialogue. I had set that part aside and let it build up, and later on I completely separated myself from my other jobs, isolated myself from everyone, and concentrated on writing it. So it was a really tough time, but I was really happy once it was all put together. Yeah, even looking back on it now, it was an amazing experience.

– Even the players felt inspired by what an amazing experience it was. The last battle was quite the family story.

Itoi: Yeah.

– There was a war that broke out among the brothers, but the presence of the mother was extremely huge in that scene.

Itoi: It was a really complicated part. The mother wanted to scold both of her boys to cut it out, but she had to be a little more tough on Lucas, who was still alive. But the one who we feel the sorriest for is Claus. Even moreso than the good, it is the bad who need to be rescued. It’s got a really deep meaning behind it, but because we could only write in hiragana, we had to keep it simple.

– And you had to keep it short, too. Even so, I think the last battle really captures the heart of the player and still manages to stay balanced.

Itoi: Yeah. But, even if I could make a balance in the dialogue, I had to grovel on my knees to the Brownie Brown staff and beg them to program the operations in the game perfectly enough to add the super subtle timing between lines. On top of that, everyone is different when it comes to how they are emotionally affected.

– So every player is probably moved by different scenes in the game.

Itoi: For me, even though I wrote it myself, there is one line that really breaks me down.

– Which is..?

Itoi: When she says, “You must be tired.”

– Ah… (speechless and teary-eyed)

Itoi: So sad… (notices the editor’s tears) Oh, just saying it is too much, isn’t it?

– “You must be tired” …I’m sorry. It’s too much, even just the sound of that line.

Itoi: It’s so, how do I put it…well, it’s a line that even makes a boy cry, isn’t it…

– That’s true…even though he had roughed up his older brother so badly, his mother comes and tells him, “You must be tired. Here, come to your mother”.

Itoi: Yeah…that one line, “You must be tired” …man, that one’ll get you.

– Seriously, that’s a dangerous line. (laughs)

– Did you have plans from the very beginning to have the two brothers battle each other?

Itoi: I did. Things turned out that way this time, but there were several other, even worse choices to choose from.

– Such as?

Itoi: For example, ones that would make you really wonder about the main characters when looking in from the outside. There were a lot [of options] like that. But because I knew there were a lot of scenes for me to choose from for the last battle, I just went back to the drawing board. And unfortunately for my work team, I just told everyone, hey, I dunno how the ending is gonna span out, and I just went on making it.

– So even as the other sections moved onward in production, the last battle was the one that had not yet been decided.

Itoi: That method of production is the same as that of Director Miyazaki. When he works on his final scene, Mr. Miyazaki just says, “I don’t know the ending, either”. But if you don’t take on that technique, you might not be able to surprise yourself as you work on it.

– I see.

Itoi: For the N64 version, I was thinking about alternately just not having any dialogue whatsoever for the final battle. I wanted to keep the scene even more vague, and just leave it entirely up to the imagination of the player.

– What do you mean by “vague”?

Itoi: Like what happens when the dragon is revived, and whether there was any hope left…it was kind of halfway explained in the ending. This time, too, shares that feeling of doubt about whether there really was hope or not, but everyone seems to be pretty unconcerned in the end. It’s a sort of expression of human strength, this time, so it’s more positive than the N64 version.

– In the end, the dragon is revived and the island is completely destroyed, but everyone is still alive, aren’t they?

Itoi: That’s right. So to bring out the strength in these human beings, no matter what, Hinawa and Claus had to make sure to tell everyone their goodbyes.

– Oh, is that right?

Itoi: That was the theme of the last battle.

– In the end, Lucas was able to pull out the last needle. But if it had turned out so Claus had pulled the needle, then…?

Itoi: Indeed, what would have happened if Claus had pulled it out? I’m sure the same thing would have happened, except that in the end, everything–even the breath of life itself–would go extinct. Even the dragon, too.

– Even the dragon?

Itoi: Yeah, even the dragon. If that were the conclusion, then even the creator himself would no longer be alive, so there was no way that I could write that…not if it were to be the end of me as well. There’s no way I could have an ending like that. It’s nothing more than simple philosophy. (laughs)

– You had mentioned how in the N64 version, when you reach the ending, it’s as pure white as the morning after a long, dark night.

Itoi: This time around it sort of seems that way, too, doesn’t it? So at that “END?” scene, it tells us, well, it’s over. You get the feeling that the creators, the characters from the game, and you–the player–make it safely to the morning and are all walking around a garbage-strewn town together. Children might not understand this, since they have never really walked through a town after a long night has passed.

– In the very end, the letters in the MOTHER 3 logo become completely wooden, and the letter O becomes the Earth.

Itoi: Yes, that’s right.

– How did you think of that?

Itoi: I felt like, what if the earth has been doing this many, many times, and has just been completely restoring itself? Human beings think that somewhere, they will live on forever, but actually, there isn’t such a think as “forever”. In all of the information I have come to learn since becoming an adult, there is some information that has influenced who I am today. One of them is how the Earth will no longer exist 5.5 billion years from now.

– So even the seemingly infinite Earth will someday go extinct.

Itoi: I’ve been told that the Earth was formed 4.6 billion years ago, and that there are only 5.5 billion years left, but it’s easy to just put that into simple words. So the ending is basically a presumption of this idea that the world will disappear in 5.5 billion years, and until then, it’s like we’re all just playing the game. In the world that we are destined to perish in, we help one another, we hate one another, and we love one another. Some may say that when the earth perishes, we will go to another star, but even that star will perish some day, too.

– That’s right.

Itoi: Just as each of our lives will end, what we think to be the biggest thing in the world–the planet itself–will someday come to an end as well. There’s sort of a feeling of refreshment in coming to realize that. If people think that the world will just go on existing forever, they’ll think of an endless number of things that they’re going to have to keep on improving.

– It’s only natural to think that way, isn’t it.

Itoi: Yeah. But to me, those thoughts of endless improvement are a display of self-denial. After all, what is “good” and what is “bad” changes depending on the situation. On top of that, there might be some people out there with dangerous thoughts, like, “in order to make the world a better place, I am going to kill you”. Take war, for instance. Isn’t that what it’s all about?

– That’s true.

Itoi: But when the world ends 5.5 billion years from now, just knowing that everything is bound to come to an end makes it easy to avoid being pulled in that direction. I would think that because things are going to end either way, we can affirm everything that is alive today.

– So you’re saying, let’s acknowledge everything that exists on earth now.

Itoi: Yeah. If we think of the world as one big, magnificent game board, for example, on that board, we acknowledge even mole crickets as participants. (laughs) Same with bad guys. This game has the message, “I’m even gonna treat you nasty people as participants!”.

– Mole crickets, too. Bad guys, too. (laughs)

Itoi: That’s right. The knowledge that the world will come to an end in 5.5 billion years actually gives me courage. There’s nothing that I can do about everything coming to an end, so as long as I have my life, I’d like to appreciate it. I did my best to be here, so I want to go out with a bang. But that’s both a good thing and a bad thing. Of course, it’s no good to go around making trouble for other people, but even if there is someone who is clearly troubled, even then I want to die thinking, “I know why you were born!”. I want to die after living to the fullest. And I want to tell others to do the same. I want to tell mankind to do the same.

– This is the same question we asked in the N64 interview, but once again, could you explain to us the message behind the mixture of wood and metal in the MOTHER 3 logo?

Itoi: Well, I tend to give a different answer every time. (laughs) When things that don’t match at all are attached to one another, it’s mentally unsettling. I’ve only written one novel, and in the opening, I wrote about a hearse. A hearse has a casket of both metal and wood, but when you try and think about how and where they connect to one another, it makes you feel a little weird. It’s also interesting how it’s meant to carry bodies. Modern things can all be seen in that same way. And you can’t question whether we can negate all of these things. In this room, too, for example, there is a wooden table…but this is a reinforced concrete building. Forcibly coordinating incompatible things and matching them…

– Like the things on the wall behind you. Those handwritten scrolls hanging on the bare concrete wall…

Itoi: Right. I feel like these are all things of modern times–these feelings of uneasiness and discomfort. But I still understand that they make up the world I’m in. That logo is a symbol of that. And Porky is a symbol of humankind. So from the very beginning, I wanted to incorporate these horribly unpleasant things into the logo; it was a lose-lose situation. But there wasn’t really anything I could do to change that this time around, either.

– The logo hasn’t changed since the N64 version. There were all kinds of subtitles attached to it in the N64 version, but why did you just stick to MOTHER 3 by itself this time?

Itoi: The meaning behind a game changes a lot between players. Players add more than half of the meaning and value to games, which is more than any other mode of expression. So I feel like that half that you’ve added is entirely your own…all I did was provide assistance. So keeping that in mind, subtitles have too strong a message that says, “I want you to look at it this way”. It narrows that world that belongs to the player. My personal feelings steer me to want to affirm everything the player thinks about the game. I wanted to make MOTHER 3 like a mirror. One that reflects the heart of the player off of the screen.

– Well then, I guess you could say that the subtitles are located inside the hearts of each and every player.

Itoi: That’s right. We could almost just hold a, “What subtitle would you use?” contest. But really, the “WELCOME TO MOTHER 3 WORLD” line is the actual tagline.

– Really?

Itoi: “MOTHER 3 WORLD” is just like a sketch. As long as something exists in that world, everything that exists, right down to the way its story is told, is part of that world.

– I see.

Itoi: Nowadays, people are always looking for consistency. Take, for example, a place lined up with nothing but bonsai trees. People would find it strange if there were suddenly a rose among them. But this MOTHER 3 WORLD of mine, including its logo, is the essence of inconsistency. If a child were to see Mickey Mouse in Disneyland and tell me, “There’s no such thing as mice that big!”, I’d want to tell that child, “Of course there is, it’s right there”. That kinda stuff is like my theme for this game. Like saying, “Let’s play on this island!”. Just…not in the way Porky would have in mind.

– Porky wasn’t kidding around when it came to playtime.

Itoi: Speaking of Porky’s playfulness, the octopus that you ride when you return to Tanetane Island looks like a sailor all suited up, doesn’t he.

– His initial Man of the Sea appearance was really stylish. (laughs)

Itoi: Doesn’t he look really cool, at first? (laughs)

– But when he became an Octopus Taxi all of a sudden, that really gave me a shock.

Itoi: When I was screwing around like that, it kinda made me feel like Porky. (laughs) When I do things like that, I feel like I understand where Porky is coming from. Since the dawn of time, man has always painted out heaven and hell. But no one’s ever had any fun drawing heaven. People always have more fun drawing hell.

– Hell is more interesting than heaven…I can see that.

Itoi: It’s a doing of mankind.

– Porky turned extremely evil, though. You could even go so far as to call him a demon.

Itoi: People aren’t just inherently evil at heart.

– So he did it all for play.

Itoi: Yeah. For example, in the very middle of the spectrum, you have fun and games. Beyond that, you’ve got mean pranks, and crimes. And beyond those crimes, you have evil. And on the opposite side, you’ve got the very embodiment of justice. But to me, evil and the embodiment of justice are both unpleasant. The space between those two extremes is something which fluctuates between mean pranks and crimes, like pulling out a needle a little, having things go terribly wrong, and unwittingly causing suffering to other people. My theme is regarding that kind of problem. It’s very compelling.

– The thin line between just having fun and mean pranks…

Itoi: Right. When I was young, there were a lot of times when I would be scolded for doing things that I’d done just for fun, because the teacher had seen it as naughty. And I thought, “Huh? The line [between good and evil] is drawn…there?”. (laughs) Isn’t Gian from Doraemon that same way? Saying, “I wonder if everyone’s gonna get mad if I do this…”. It seems as though people think about whether something is good or bad only after they have already gone and done it.

– Even recently, there was the case of the hotel owner who had the building constructed and broke all of the safety codes. So they’ve got to completely fix the place up after just going too fast with construction. (laughs)

Itoi: There was, wasn’t there? (laughs) There are a lot of people like that in this world.

– And this time, there are a lot of items laying around that remind us of Porky and his old neighbor, Ness, but we wonder what kind of feelings Porky really has toward him.

Itoi: That part was the funnest to make. Porky didn’t have any friends, you know. So perhaps he’d always just been playing with Ness that whole time. Porky probably just became the way he did because his parents were so bad.

– The apple doesn’t fall far. (laughs)

Itoi: Yeah. His parents were pretty terrible.

– And this Porky we know jumps into the Absolutely Safe Capsule in the very end.

Itoi: (laughs)

– That means that even when the world crumbles away, Porky will never die.

Itoi: So 5.5 billion years from now, Porky will still be alive…but the grief of that is incredibly depressing to me. It’s amazing…Porky is truly a poem in himself.

– Even as a bad guy, there are some things we can’t seem to hate about Porky. But we can say the same thing about Fassad, too, can’t we.

Itoi: You’ve got to wonder just what happened to Fassad. He must have met up with someone really terrible. Like I said earlier, it’s the same as going from playing around to dirty tricks, from dirty tricks to unforgivable deeds, from unforgivable deeds to evil sin. If there’s some kind of trigger behind it, even the kindest person can end up doing something horrible.

– And Fassad turned out to be the final Magypsy…

Itoi   Yeah. Among those seven magypsies, one stood alone, going off and doing increasingly worse things. People like that are usually the ones with the most power. It’s scary when someone like that converts to the other side.

– That is scary.

Itoi: Actually, I haven’t really prepared any answers about Fassad. So if you really want to know the answer, I’d like you to read the Tannisho and think it over.

– The Tannisho? But even as bad a guy as Fassad was, there was one mouse who stuck by his side.

Itoi: That’s right. That’s the important part. And you know, I’ve felt that way since I was a sixth grader. There was a singer named Kazuko Matsuo who sang a song with the Mahina Stars. It was a so-called “mood ballad” called “Reunion”, and it started with the lyrics, “I could no longer see you, and for the first time, I knew love deeper than the ocean.” Then the second line goes, “Everyone says he’s bad, but to me he was always a good person”, and she sings about this guy who is in jail. Even though it’s a song like that, a long time ago, it showed up on the Red and White Singing Contest. (laughs)

– (laughs)

Itoi: At the time, it was regularly aired on television. And during this one class excursion, we were riding the bus and the guide tells us, (imitating the voice of the bus tour guide) “I had a veeery good tiiime with all you fiiine people todaaay. Soooon, it will be tiiiime for us to paaart. So nooow, I would liiiike, to sing a sooong for yooouu”. And then he starts singing the “Reunion” song. I thought, well, the title is alright, but that’s not exactly a song to sing when you part with an elementary schooler!

(Both burst into laughter)

Itoi: That was during sixth grade. I thought it was wrong. (laughs) But you know, that song felt really erotic to me. When I heard how there was a woman in love with a man who everyone called evil, I found it really amazing. Don’t you feel that way about the general tone of MOTHER 3 as a whole?

– And that’s where the mouse who’s attached to Fassad comes in.

Itoi: That’s right. So MOTHER 3 might not appeal as much to people who can’t enjoy gray areas. They’d just want to demand that characters are either good guys or bad guys. (laughs)

– Interesting, I can see how that would be. So there are some things we can’t seem to hate about Fassad, either.

Itoi: So be sure to use Kazuko Matsuo’s “Reunion” as reference materials. (laughs)

– By the way, there are some rumors saying that Flint is actually Ness.

Itoi: I’ve figured even since the N64 version that there would be rumors like that. Talks about that came up among the development team, and I made it so that if people really thought that, they could go on thinking it if they liked.

– So it’s like, the rest is up to everyone’s imagination.

Itoi: I tried to make it so people could think whatever they wanted to. Which reminds me, in the scene with the last needle, did you talk to Flint after his hat flies off of him?

– I talked to him, but…

Itoi: Well, something happens if you’re extremely insistent and keep talking to him. It’s practically a secret trick, because I added sooo many lines, you’d never expect to be able to talk to someone for that long.

– So you have to sit there and talk to Flint in a scene where you’re nervously preparing yourself for the final battle?

Itoi: Well it’s a scene just reeking of apprehension. I don’t want people going around and blabbering in a place like that! (laughs)

(Both burst out laughing)

Itoi: It’s a place that’d make you think, “Why the hell are you busting out another secret!”. (laughs) Even as we were approaching our release date, I went to one of our staff members who checks the game very rigorously and pleaded to put this in the game. [Staff:] “Come on, you might as well make me change their eye color, too.” But I was like, if you don’t put this in, I’m going to be completely unsatisfied! (laughs)

– (laughs)

Itoi: [Staff:] “But, there are already a ton of lines written. It’s already finished!” (laughs)

– Better check it out the second time around!

Itoi: I think it was about six times that you had to talk to Flint. I figured it was deep enough for people to dig to. (laughs)

– Finally, I’d like to ask about the doorknob that comes up throughout the adventure.

Itoi: As you may know, that doorknob becomes the player’s in the end of the game. There was someone who saw that, and posted something really incredible on the internet. “Even though that door was always open, it wouldn’t open. This is because it couldn’t open without a doorknob…but, the player received that doorknob. So, with that doorknob, the player could open that door at any time”. I was so happy about that sentiment. It really struck me how so many players are playing the game with so many different ideas.

– So let’s make MOTHER 4!

Itoi: Phew… (laughs) Well, 3 was hard enough to get through.

– But when you were making 2, you had to have had concepts for 3 come to mind, right? So this time, were there any thoughts about 4?

Itoi: This time, I’d like to be the player. (laughs)

– There are plenty of games out there that you can be the player for.

Itoi: So if someone approached me and said that they’d like to make MOTHER 4, I might just tell them to go for it. (laughs) If there was a MOTHER 4, I’d like to play it.

– In MOTHER 2, there was a sign that said “MOTHER 3 in development,” but is there a statement from development this time around, too?

Itoi: Yeah. It’s in a conversation on the second floor of the inn in Chapter 2. It’s like, “Can I have this onigiri?”, “Sure, go ahead”. (laughs) That conversation happened every day during development. It was a terribly symbolic conversation. (laughs) There’s a shopping center called RonRon in the train station at Kichijoji, and I went there every day to buy onigiri.

– The development company Brownie Brown is in Kichijoji in the Tokyo district, right?

Itoi: Yeah. But in our team, there was this guy who was so financially conservative, he was conservative even for a conservative. The whole time, even though there were all different kinds of food for sale, he would absolutely, positively not go anywhere except one of two corner stores to buy onigiri. When we would pass by, he would be there, without fail. (laughs)

– (laughs)

Itoi: And when we thought he wasn’t there that day, he would just be in the other onigiri place.

– I hear you found some croquette rolls in Kichijoji that you’re really fond of.

Itoi: Man, would I love to eat some of those croquette rolls right about now.

– It’s that good?

Itoi: Yeah. The outside is crunchy, but the inside is so soft. It always tastes freshly-made, and it’s soooo good! It’s in that RonRon department store. I wanna eat some now! The name of the shop is Antendo. An-ten-do, get it? (laughs) Actually, last summer, I was in the hospital to undergo some pretty major surgery. So while I was healing, I was asked, “What would you like to eat?”. Well, hospital food stinks, so I said, (starts to act out labored breathing) “In Kichijoji…there is a place…called Nakabayashi…go to this Nakabayashi…and…buy some…croquette rolls…” (laughs)

(both break out into laughter)

– It’s that good, huh? (laughs)

Itoi: It is to me what MOTHER 2 is to the fans. I would just like to say: There is no other croquette bread that surpasses it. (laughs)

– What’s up with that dolphin ear bone that you can pick up all over the beach?

Itoi: I actually have a dolphin ear bone pendant of my own. When a dolphin dies, it floats among the waves for a long time, and while all kinds of its bones start to gradually melt away, only the bone in the inside of its ear comes to the surface of the shore without melting. There’s this thing called beachcombing, and something you can pick up from that is a dolphin’s ear bone. It’s a sort of protective charm for fisherman, surfers, and people who wish to return to the area. When I heard about that, I thought it was really nice and I bought one for myself. It made me happy, and there was a time when it hung around my neck, so I decided to put it in the game.