Mr. Nagata: So, today we are here to discuss that MOTHER 2 is being released on the Wii U Virtual Console! That means that…

Itoi: Nagata-kun.

Mr. Nagata: Yes? What is it?

Itoi: Don’t you think the people reading Hobonichi may not be quite sure of even what a “Virtual Console” is?

Mr. Nagata: You’re right, excuse me. Let me fully explain. By the way, Itoi-san, you know what it is, right?

Itoi: How rude; of course I do!…more or less.

Iwata: Hahaha!

Mr. Nagata: Hmmm, well, the newest game console from Nintendo, the Wii U, was released at the end of last year and it has something called the “Wii U Virtual Console”. It is a download service that allow you to buy previously released well-known games from old Nintendo systems like the Famicom or Super Famicom…that’s a good explanation, right Iwata-san?

Iwata: Yes, that’s fine. We are also preparing Game Boy Advance games to be offered on the Wii U as well.

Itoi: Hmph.

Mr. Nagata: Anyway, to continue, this year is the 30th Anniversary of the Famicom. As a part of the celebration, there is a Trial Campaign going on that is offering seven different famous past Nintendo titles for purchase for only thirty yen each.

Itoi: That’s too cheap! [slam]

Mr. Nagata: Our tea is going to spill so, really, please do not hit the table.

Itoi: Can someone please get me a paper towel?

Iwata: Anyway, the current Trial Campaign is arranged with a beginning early purchase period. The thirty yen price is limited to thirty days.

Mr. Nagata: Yes. That’s what it was.

Itoi: So then what?

Mr. Nagata: So, for the third round of the Trial Campaign, the well-known Super Famicom title, MOTHER 2, will be available from March 20th until April 18th! [clap, clap, clap]

Itoi: That’s good.

Iwata: That is good. Considering MOTHER 2 hasn’t been available to play on the Wii, DS, or even 3DS.

Mr. Nagata: Also, I will explain the specifics in a bit but Itoi-san is planned to make an appearance on the Wii U social media network, Miiverse, to connect with everyone. [clap, clap, clap]

Itoi: I’m not even quite sure what that is but that’s nice to hear.

Mr. Nagata: Umm, so today, I’d like to move into discussing both the MOTHER 2 Revival Event celebration and announcement and some more about this game that both Shigesato Itoi-san and Satoru Iwata-san have a long history with.

Itoi: It is long. Quite long.

Iwata: But first, there are many readers of Hobonichi who don’t know much about any of this, no?

Mr. Nagata: You’re correct. Before Iwata-san became the president of Nintendo, he did help out with Hobonichi from its inception. Even earlier, however, his first encounter with Shigesato Itoi was for MOTHER 2.

Iwata: That’s right. The beginning of the story behind “MOTHER” is also the beginning of the story behind how Itoi-san and I came together.

Mr. Nagata: Right. Well, would you briefly tell us that story?

Itoi: …

Mr. Nagata: …Itoi-san?

Itoi: Hm?

Mr. Nagata: Would you briefly tell us that story?

Itoi: That time, huh? Can’t I have you do the talking for me, Nagata-kun?

Mr. Nagata: Me?

Iwata: [laughs]

Itoi: That is to say, there isn’t any need to go over a story all three of us already know.

Mr. Nagata: Even still…

Iwata: Nagata-kun, just put all the information together and write it down. You can make it as if Iwata-san and I spoke about it.

Mr. Nagata: What?!

Iwata: [laughs]

Itoi: You can put all that stuff together, Nagata-kun. Go ahead!

Mr. Nagata: Well, in 1989, the RPG MOTHER for the Famicom, created by Shigesato Itoi, went on sale. The sequel, MOTHER 2: Giygas Strikes Back was being developed for the Super Famicom, but, to put it simply, there were some setbacks. Is that okay?

Itoi: Sure.

Mr. Nagata: At the time, the man who showed up while MOTHER 2 was having difficulties during development and needed to fix a number of things was Satoru Iwata-san.  By the way, at that time you were both the President of HAL Laboratories and a programmer, right?

Iwata: Correct.

Itoi: Wasn’t there a famous line Iwata-san delivered at the time?

Mr. Nagata: I was about to say that! Well, as Iwata-san was checking how far you had gotten at the time, he turned towards Shigesato Itoi and I’ve been told said: “If you are going to…”

Itoi: “If you are going to continue to make this game like this, it is going to take two years”.

Mr. Nagata: If you want to speak, please tell the whole story.

Iwata: Um, according to my memory, at the time the project wasn’t even on its way to being finished yet. So the first thing I said to Itoi-san was, “I don’t think you’re going to be able to finish if you go on like this”.

Mr. Nagata: Wow.

Iwata: I continued and told him, “I can help you if you would like but there are two ways to proceed”. That is when I said what Itoi-san just credited to me. I then went on to say, “If we used what you have now and fix it, it will take two years.  If we can start fresh, it’ll take half a year”.

Itoi: Pretty cool, right?

Mr. Nagata: Itoi-san, what did you do after hearing that?

Itoi: Well, of course I said, “Please!”, but if I tell you the truth, at the time I didn’t really understand.

Iwata: At that point, I told him “I’ll try to get it working,” and took what they had made up to that point with me.  Exactly a month after that we got the map scrolling to work and showed it to Itoi-san’s team.  They were all really shocked.

Itoi: Yeah, we were very surprised.  We were all like, “Whoa! It’s working!”.

Mr. Nagata: Wow, development had had that many issues.

Iwata: Everyone was really surprised and the whole environment was oddly tense but to me I had the opposite reaction; it was odd. We’d only completed a simple task.

Itoi: We hadn’t even been able to do something “simple” for a while. Now that I think about it, we were in a bad place. From that point forward we all relied on Iwata-san. To tell the truth, it took half a year to get everything working.

Mr. Nagata: In total, about how long was MOTHER 2’s development time?

Itoi: How long…? How long was it again?

Iwata: Ummm, from the beginning of development it was pretty much five years.

Mr. Nagata: That’s including the the time you weren’t there, Iwata-san?

Iwata: That’s including the the time you weren’t there, Iwata-san?

Mr. Nagata: Oh? I only just realized now but it only took a year from when you joined the project, Iwata-san?

Itoi: That’s right. It was quick.

Iwata: That’s because many of the individual elements were already completed. The graphics, scenarios, and sound, to name a few, were already completed. The pieces were all there.

Mr. Nagata: But it didn’t work, right?

Iwata: No, it didn’t work. [laughs]

Mr. Nagata: It’s incredible to think that it took only a year to get such a well-known core RPG like that working and on sale.

Itoi: Yeah.

Iwata: In about half a year we were able to connect all the pieces together and make the game playable. From there it had to be refined further. It took another half year to fix all the details.

Itoi: Still, it was quick. It’s remarkable.

Iwata: Even still, it was because there were the four years of work already done that made MOTHER 2 what it is.  Without that, we wouldn’t have been able to complete it so easily in a year.  It’s not as if those four years were a total waste.  All the work and lessons learned from failed attempts everyone put in over four years made it into the game.

Itoi: That’s absolutely correct.

Mr. Nagata: You could say that the stoppage in development and all those failed attempts lead to many of those “unexpected elements” coming to be and exemplify MOTHER 2. It’s as if all those internal difficulties experienced by Itoi-san strengthened to final game.

Iwata: Well said.

Itoi: Yeah, write down that I said that.

Mr. Nagata: Please elaborate.

Iwata: [laughs]

Itoi: Okay, fine. I suppose you could that since we weren’t able to complete simple tasks, you can also say the amount of inconsistencies continued to increase.

Mr. Nagata: That’s right.  If you were to solely make all the different playable content, Itoi-san, it would be a failure.

Iwata: [laughs]

Itoi: Speaking of that, when ideas keep piling up, I am quite good at finding and pointing out the problems. It’s my skill.

Both: Ah!

Itoi: That’s why I was pretty happy to be able to have a discussions like that.  It felt like, “Okay, let’s do something about this!”.

Iwata: So you invented the Octopus Erasing Machine?

Mr. Nagata: That’s right. [laughs]

Itoi: Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Mr. Nagata: In the game you clearly outline the places you can and cannot go.  Itoi-san says that times when you don’t know what to do and feel all clogged in your head, “It’s as if an octopus is blocking the way”.  So as to clear that octopus out and be able to pass you need to…

Itoi: The main character just gets the Octopus Erasing Machine.

Both: [laughs]

Itoi: It’s a lot of fun thinking up stuff like that.

Mr. Nagata: This time, the second game in the series, MOTHER 2, is the one being released. Can I ask why it was MOTHER 2 and not the first MOTHER?

Itoi: Hmm, why indeed. When Iwata-san asked me what we wanted to do and we were discussing it, we just kinda naturally picked it. I guess it is something that many people have played and remember enjoying.

Iwata: That’s true. As you know, MOTHER is well remembered by lots of people and that’s certainly the case for Itoi-san as well.  I think we’ve clearly heard from those people but 2 was really what the most people were asking for.

Mr. Nagata: That’s true.

Iwata: Furthermore, another thing is that when you look at it in terms of generations, I think most games nowadays are mostly different than they were then.  When you think in terms of brand new players, I think the system in MOTHER 2 is easier to get into than MOTHER.

Mr. Nagata: Of course, that makes sense. It’s only my personal impression but the game balance of MOTHER is more unforgiving than MOTHER 2.

Itoi: Yeah.

Mr. Nagata: Also, although the games in the MOTHER series all take place in the same world, their stories aren’t clearly linked in any way so there isn’t really the feeling of, “If I don’t play the previous game, I won’t really understand the story”.

Iwata: That was our feeling when we decided to release MOTHER 2.  As for my involvement in the development of that game, well, of course it came to mind, but it didn’t have any bearing on the decision.

Itoi: Right. That had nothing to do with it.

Iwata: Nagata-san, as a player, how do you feel?

Mr. Nagata: Well, if I were a person nowadays who had no experience with the games and had to pick one of the two, I think I would pick MOTHER 2. At the time MOTHER came out, it was during the reign of the Famicom, and Dragon Quest had just begun to bring the concept of playing RPGs into Japan. There is the impression that they were something for fanatics. MOTHER 2, as a Super Famicom game, went on sale towards the end of the system’s life cycle. What I mean is that it came out when the technical capabilities of the Super Famicom had been realized and were being fully used and there were many kinds of people who owned the system. I feel like that is really well reflected by things in MOTHER 2.

Itoi: Yeah, write what you just said as me.

Mr. Nagata: Well. [laughs] Please add something.

Itoi: Alright, well, it’s a little difficult for me since I’m the creator. But that’s it. MOTHER 2 is something adults, children, or young ladies can play.

Mr. Nagata: Right!

Itoi: Right?

Iwata: Exactly.  Even if you play them now, I guess it’s still necessary to say. The MOTHER 2 tag line, by the way, is something that I took up when I became the president of Nintendo and aimed to “expand the gaming population”. You can say that “expanding the gaming population” includes making games for “adults, children, and young ladies”, right? [laughs]

Itoi: Correct. [laughs]

Mr. Nagata: By the way, I heard that the way your father calls you when you’ve been playing the game for a long time and says, “Don’t you think it would be a good idea if you took a break?”, is also included in concepts for the Wii.

Iwata: That’s right. I think if there hadn’t been that system already created where your dad calls you every two hours, there wouldn’t be the Wii function that records your overall play time. Aside from being a piece of software I had a hand it, I was inspired by it in many ways. It really is a special game.

Itoi: Wow, guys, you’re really saying lots of great things! [laughs]

Iwata: [laughs]

Mr. Nagata: Getting back to the conversation at hand, the discussion you told us about where you decided to release MOTHER 2 happened earlier this year, right?

Iwata: That’s right. [laughs]

Mr. Nagata: I guess, if you look at it from the start, I get the impression that everything seemed to mesh together well for this project and it started up in the blink of an eye.

Itoi: Yeah, how did it happen again?

Iwata: What got it all moving was an exchange Itoi-san had on Twitter at the end of last year. Someone had told him something about wanting to play MOTHER again and he tweeted something like, “Okay, I’m meeting with Iwata-san and will let him know”.

Itoi: Right, right.

Iwata: Then, I really did meet with Itoi-san that day and I heard about the exchange he had had. One of the things we talked about was that if given the chance, we’d want to do it. Miiverse, the new software where you can post you thoughts and impressions while playing a game, was also launching on the Wii U. After that, right after WiiU went on sale, both ideas came together in my head.

Mr. Nagata: So everything really did start after the WiiU went on sale.

Iwata: It really was after launch. I thought using Miiverse to let people share their thoughts while playing MOTHER once again would be the greatest. Furthermore, there was no doubt that everyone would be really happy if Itoi-san himself, using his own Mii, joined in sharing his experiences to participate as well. I went to visit Itoi-san after the New Year and told him that I had the idea to do all this.

Mr. Nagata: Please tell us a little bit more about Miiverse in detail.

Iwata: Miiverse is a social media network pre-installed on the WiiU. Using your Mii as your avatar, you can share your thoughts and impressions with people all over the world. Basically, each game has its own community and there you can make posts, read what others say, and comment too. I mentioned it before, but MOTHER is a game that has been well-loved for a long time and a title that has many places people would want to express, “I really like this part”.  Even if depending on the person, the points they want to make are quite different.

Mr. Nagata: That’s true. There are those who would say it’s the music or those who would say it’s the writing; everyone has their own favorite part.

Iwata: There are those who want to tell something about the time that line made them cry or that the noises Master Belch made were disgusting. People have memories of many different places. Even when you read a point someone else makes that is different from yours, you can get the feeling of, “That’s right! I agree!”.  When posting your own impressions, you can hear agreement from all over. In that way I think Miiverse is a piece of software perfectly suited to this kind of thing.

Itoi: That makes sense.

Iwata: Also, in addition to being able to type out your post normally on Miiverse, you can also use the gamepad’s touch screen and write or draw posts by hand. Itoi-san, at the time, didn’t you write the script for MOTHER 2 by hand with a pencil?

Itoi: Oh yeah, that’s right.

Iwata: Since the time we worked on MOTHER, I’ve always thought Itoi-san’s handwritten script was extremely fascinating and I think that is because of its hand written style, including the font Mr. Saturn speaks in. I think that style can be directly transmitted via Miiverse.

Itoi: Yes, it can.

Iwata: That’s why, if you think of it as a MOTHER fan, being able to have something posted like a drawing of Mr. Saturn from Itoi-san is…it would be wonderful.

Mr. Nagata: Right. [laughs]

Iwata: With that and many other things in mind, we felt like was is the time we had to do it. Actually, if I were to have this conversation with people within the company, everyone may get all starry-eyed. [laughs]

Itoi: Yeah.

Iwata: Since it’s something everyone would really enjoy and would be something valuable to share, I was convinced we had to do it.

Itoi: Yeah, of course.

Mr. Nagata: Itoi-san, aren’t you just agreeing to everything?

Itoi: …it’s all I can do, no?

Iwata: [laughs]

Iwata: If you think about why MOTHER games are special, I think it’s because of Itoi-san’s presence. There’s no one else like Itoi-san among game makers so there are no other games like MOTHER.

Itoi: Is that right? [laughs]

Mr. Nagata: I think so!

Iwata: From a overall format point of view, MOTHER falls in the same category as other JRPGs and in that regard I don’t think it is that special.  However, generally speaking, it is regarded as a unique game that no others compare to. I think that is because Itoi-san is permeated throughout the game. Whether it’s something interesting, something there’s just too much of, something beyond what you would normally expect, or even something completely absurd, I think all those different game play elements are influenced by him.

Mr. Nagata: Certainly, MOTHER has lots of different play elements and ideas like that which aren’t in any other games.

Itoi: Or even the guy who comes to take your picture.

Both: Yes, yes, yes.

Itoi: Or the pizza delivery guy.

Mr. Nagata: Speaking of the pizza delivery guy, when he can’t make it to somewhere the main characters are, he calls and says something like, “I’ve decided, honestly, that… I should give up”, right?

Itoi: He goes out of his way to call. [laughs]

Mr. Nagata: Also, the fact that there is a delay included is great. It makes you think like he must have been walking all over.

Itoi: Yeah. That part really has attention to detail.

Iwata: Yes, it does. [laughs]

Mr. Nagata: Details like that are exactly the point. I think there are other games that have fun-seeming content and ideas put in them. But surrounding those ideas with equal absurdity or even putting in the care to do so for the sake of absurdity in such a diligent way is what MOTHER games are all about.

Itoi: It came up before.  We also did it when your father calls you and says, “Shouldn’t you take a rest?”, after telling you that, it continues.

Mr. Nagata: Yeah. If you tell him you want to keep playing he tells you, “I understand your point about the fate of the world being at stake”, right?

Iwata: Right, right. [laughs]

Mr. Nagata: His asking you, “How about taking a break soon?” and, if you refuse, his saying, “I understand your point about the fate of the world being at stake”, is just…

Itoi: Let me say, having made it and played it are both fun.

Iwata: Definitely. There’s nothing else out there with stuff like that.

Mr. Nagata: Yeah, there isn’t.

Itoi: When I think about it, when it comes down to it, well, I’ve always been doing things like that.

Mr. Nagata: I suppose so. [laughs]

Itoi: When you look at it from the point of view while playing, all the fun had while making it really reflects in the game, doesn’t it?

Iwata: Also, Itoi-san, as someone who has experienced really getting into and playing video games, is able to understand what that means from the point of view of a player. From that point, he’s experienced all kinds of things a normal person making games has not. I feel that is what has allowed him to tie all those things together and make them his own and unique.

Mr. Nagata: That’s true. For MOTHER 2, however, not just Itoi-san was special, the other people connected to the game were also special. I  heard that, for example, MOTHER 2 was the only game whose graphics Kouichi Oyama, the artistic director, had a hand in working on. Also, for the music, this was the only game Keiichi Suzuki and Hirokazu Tanaka teamed up to create music that would be only in MOTHER.

Itoi: Hearing you say it again, I agree with that.

Iwata: If you condense it all, there were lots of things that were created that can only be found in MOTHER. That’s why even though close to twenty years have passed, everyone still remembers them.

Itoi: That’s right. I’m really happy that everyone remembers those fun lines I wrote. There’s nothing like it.

Iwata: Yeah.

Itoi: Nothing compares to being told, “I can never forget that line”, by someone who can repeat it word for word.

Iwata: Clearly, since games are interactive entertainment that you control yourself, they have a special way of sticking with you. It is really powerful. Things really stay with you, whether it be something that moved you to tears or something that made you laugh out loud and everything in between.

Mr. Nagata: Nevertheless, the ways in which MOTHER sticks with you is really varied depending on the person and random things stay with you.

Iwata: That’s right. Different people remember different parts.

Mr. Nagata: To tell the truth, even now there are still voices expressing those things. Itoi-san, when you hear them, what is it like?

Itoi: …uh-oh, you’re asking me?

Both: [laugh]

Itoi: When it comes to MOTHER, I am always the person everyone is overly concerned with but I just remain silent. I am glad and thankful but when asked if I have anything to say, I don’t really have anything and just listen like I am now. Still, in response to those voices, as the creator, when finding something else to say, the first thing I probably would say is,“Thank you”, but well, that’s all. So, what should I say; I’m happy but I remain silent.

Iwata: Of course, that makes sense. Nagata-san, as a player would, take a look at the game creator Itoi-san. What do you see?

Mr. Nagata: Hmm. I see that when it comes to MOTHER, the man himself is pretty quiet.

Itoi: Yep. [laughs]

Mr. Nagata: That is to say, pretty much, Itoi-san is 100% an author. Even for non-MOTHER things, it’s the same.

Iwata: Ah.

Itoi: That’s right.

Mr. Nagata: For the true author, there are lots of things they’ve made or are connected to, but when their work is put together as a finished product, it’s the same as MOTHER. As the author of the book, you think about the people around you that you want to include in the book and that all is in the book and that’s that. So I feel probably that’s why they then wind up being quiet about it. With all that in mind, Twitter came about a few years ago and I think it’s given the opportunity to say “thank you” to the fans.

Itoi: Yeah, that’s right. That’s how it is.

Mr. Nagata: I guess you can’t just write “thank you” to your fans in your work. I think Iwata-san has also had similar experiences with things he’s worked on.

Iwata: That’s right. Even if it is something I’ve really felt, there’s never been the chance to express it.

Itoi: Definitely, as far as that goes, Twitter has been something huge for me. Because it lets me casually be able to say like I’m glad.

Iwata: And then, when other people see Itoi-san say something like, “I’m glad”, it makes them feel quite happy as well and those feelings keep spreading.

Mr. Nagata: For the player, even though time has passed and they’ve become adults now, they still remember it all and are able to express that just by saying “I’ll never forget”.

Itoi: That’s right. Quite succinct. So from my side, I can say “thanks”.

Mr. Nagata: Miiverse is also the same format.

Iwata: That’s right. It’s the same. That’s why I’m really excited about it.

Itoi: That’s also why Iwata-san keeps grinning and suggesting that, “If you’re going to play, I think now is the time”.

Iwata: Right. I think now we’ve been able to put all those elements of that game together well. Without them all, over the past nineteen years, we weren’t going to bring the game back before it was ready.

Both: [laugh]

Iwata: Nineteen years have passed since we made it and, to bring it back, you could say it’s because we’ve created an environment for everyone to enjoy it in or you could say we’ve taken long enough. It’s not that we’ve been cultivating the game. It feels like there’s a good connection  between the player and the game. Well, that’s because, MOTHER, at its core, is a tale about a father watching over his children from afar.

Itoi: Right, right. That’s like the feeling I wanted to leave. Fathers all tend to be hands-off like that.

Iwata: Yeah.

Itoi: For a lot of people, once they have kids, it kinda feels that way. Yeah, so that could also be a reason why I get quiet. MOTHER, as unexpected as it may be, is a story about family. However, when you think about that theme, I didn’t create it that way on purpose. You can probably say it turned out that way on accident. Then again, maybe I’m able to talk like this cause it’s been nineteen years.

Iwata: Yeah.

Itoi: Also, what I’m feeling more and more lately is that if I hadn’t made MOTHER then, there are a lot of people now who feel they may not have come together the way they have.

Iwata: Yeah, quite well said.

Itoi: Whether it’s a young game creator or someone whose said they wanted to meet, many people have said it’s because they liked MOTHER. I’ve also been told “If it wasn’t for MOTHER, I think I wouldn’t be the person I am now”. That’s just, what should I say…I’m absolutely grateful and it makes me feel assured that now, when it comes to things I’ve made, there are those who can find the joy in them.

Iwata: I also, if there was no MOTHER, wouldn’t have met Itoi-san.

Itoi: Yeah, that’s right. It’s because of making that game that we met. Oh yeah, Nagata-kun too, right?

Mr. Nagata: More or less, yes [laughs]. Well, it’s almost time, so do you have one last thing for the people enjoying the MOTHER 2 Revival Event?

Iwata: Yes. On the back of the package for MOTHER 2 when it came out, it said, “Children will become adults and adults will become children”.  The more time passes, I agree with that.  In that feeling, including things we’ve made like the WiiU and Miiverse, I’d like you to play the game again. Maybe, if it’s your first time, it may have a strong effect on you.  Even still, while playing wherever you are, you could receive a message directly from the creator Itoi-san. Everything I just said is sort of like the feeling of a dream becoming reality before you; that’s pretty exciting.

Mr. Nagata: Thank you very much. Next…from the creator.

Itoi: …I’m not really sure what to say.

Iwata: [laughs]

Mr. Nagata: [laughs]

Itoi: No, I’m surprised, too!

Iwata: This really is a special line of work, right?

Itoi: That’s right. Well, that’s why, if you were to ask the people who know me well, they’d say this is how I am. That’s the best I can say.

Iwata: Definitely.

Mr. Nagata: Definitely.

Iwata: Well, this is the first I’ve seen Itoi-san not enter into a conversation like this.

Mr. Nagata: Yeah, that’s right. If I hadn’t moved the conversation along, he wouldn’t have spoken at all.

Itoi: Yep [laughs]. So that’s why, it’d be best to let it go.

Mr. Nagata: That’s what I’ll do. Thank you very much for today.

Iwata: Thank you very much!

Itoi: Ah, what should I say…

Everyone: [laughs]

Source to original interview